California Demographic Data Collaborative Webinar Series (Part 4) - The 'Now What_' 

0:00:07.1 Kelly Brown: Good afternoon everyone, and welcome to the fourth in a series of  webinars being offered by the demographic data collaborative of The James Irvine Foundation, the  Wingard Foundation, The California Endowment, a series of webinars that's being hosted to center  non-profit capacity building around demographic data. The webinar is started, is being recorded and will be available at the end of all five sessions along with supporting materials. 

0:00:41.2 Kelly Brown: Just as a reminder, the California demographic data collaboration is a  collaboration of the three foundations mentioned, who came together to join efforts to learn and  explore solutions to ease the burdens on the non-profits that they supported and deceased  opportunities related to learning from demographic data. All of this is with the shared goal of a  commitment to equity and justice, so this is a series, as I mentioned, of webinars, along with  supporting materials that is designed to build on the existing capacity of non-profits to really collect engage and effectively use demographics. 

0:01:17.1 Kelly Brown: My name is Kelly Brown, and I'm the CEO of Viewpoint consulting. I've  been working with the collaborative for a number of years, myself and my colleagues, Meghan  McVety, [0:01:25.0] ____ Campbell, have been working with a demographic data collaborative on  this project for several years to really strengthen the capacity of nonprofits to engage demographic  data and the webinars that we're offering today grew out of the learning and engagement that we  had with all of their grantee partners around what was needed and what supports were required were they looking for in order to strengthen their work. 

0:01:58.6 Kelly Brown: I've been leading these webinars, we give a little bit of framing today for  the conversation, but most of what we'll do in the 50 minutes session that we are about to embark  on, his be in conversation with our guest, Allie Van ease from the Kalamazoo Community  Foundation, is a community investment officer at the foundation in Michigan and an early partner  of incandescent via Candid campaign. 

0:02:26.9 Kelly Brown: So we hear a little bit more about from Allie and how the Kalamazoo  Community Foundation is engaging and using demographic data, and hopefully, as I mentioned,  while Allie and I will be in conversation, will also be in conversation with you, because we really  want to encourage folks to actively participate in the conversation, we saw a lot of energy in the last session, so people will be able to participate, so the chat is enabled for everyone and the Q&A,  which is we're in which you can put and share your questions if folks want who want to engage will be moderating and watching that area closely to ensure that we get your comments and questions on onto the table. 

0:03:12.5 Kelly Brown: So just as a recap of the first three sessions quickly, we started the series of five with kind of wire demographics important, what is it?  

0:03:22.6 Kelly Brown: Why is it important to know who you're engaging in, who your leadership  and staff are, how does that impact and strengthen your work and deepen your relevance and  communities? In the second session, we focused on the what. What kinds of demographic to  demographic should you collect, how do you think about the taxonomies and tools that you use to  get that data, understanding the categories and how they change in terms of how people identify,  reducing, hopefully some of the anxiety around how categories and identities change and evolve  over time and giving you some insights into how to build tools that allow for that kind of evolution. 

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California Demographic Data Collaborative Webinar Series (Part 4) - The 'Now What_' 

0:04:07.2 Kelly Brown: And the last session, in the third session, we focused on data collection  mechanisms, how do you get this data? Talked a little bit about the difference between survey data  and administrative data, focused on issues around privacy and consent and being clear and  transparent with individuals about how you're gonna use this data, so the way you get demographics is done respectfully appropriately and effectively, and assuring people reminded folks, if this is the  kind of data and questions that people are quite used to answering, so folks shouldn't be afraid of  engaging people around it, but they should do it respectfully, and appropriately. 

0:04:46.2 Kelly Brown: So today, what we're gonna do is at a very high level, I'm gonna give a  little bit of framing around putting the data to work, how do you use demographic data, we  definitely wanna hear from or how you are using it currently, and how you could use it more  effectively, and that will be the bulk of the conversation that we have with Allie this morning, we're  gonna touch a little bit on the legal landscape. 

0:05:10.4 Kelly Brown: 'Cause we know those questions and concerns have come up, we are in an  environment where some of that is in play, some of those issues are in place, we want to at least  raise and surface the dynamism in that space and give you some insights and some guidelines for  how you can engage your own constituencies around these issues, but also to ensure that we don't  want anyone to be overly concerned or afraid, but we do want people to understand that this is an  area around inclusion and diversity and equity, are our areas that are being actively engaged in  certain sectors of our communities. 

0:05:54.5 Kelly Brown: So as we often do, as we have in previous sessions, we wanna start with a  little poll and ask you, how are you using demographic data? We know that from previous sessions  and previous conversations that we've had with folks that many of you who are coming to these  sessions are already engage with demographics across the spectrum in different kinds of ways, but  you really wanna get a sense of how you all are... How you all are using it, and we hope that as we  move into the conversation, so you'll have the opportunity to share how you're using it and  questions around how you can use it better, so it's interesting. 

0:06:37.8 Kelly Brown: It looks like there is... There's fair degree of equal uses in terms of staff  development and forming program, communicating about your work, reporting, we know that the  reporting is a big area in terms of how folks... What motivates people to engage this data?  

0:06:58.5 Kelly Brown: So this is super helpful across the board, and not too many people are not  using it yet, but there are still some who might benefit from this conversation. So it's in the poll is  share the results. You can see the discussion there, so that's where that gives us some foundation, so  at the higher level, again, this is information and data that can really strengthen your ability, your  organization's ability to be responsive to the current population and to changes in the population. 

0:07:41.6 Kelly Brown: Again, whether you're doing direct service, whether you're an advocacy  organization, whether you're doing policy work, whether you're doing messaging or  communications, whether you're doing research, all of that happens in the context of a community,  in a population that it's important to know about, it's important to know who and how to recruit the  staff and talent that you use to design and implement and engage all of those programs, and having  demographic data can really strengthen your ability to access talent, to understand what  perspectives may need to be abroad to bear to what you're doing and to really get the most out of a  range of talent, it's important though to remember that the data is almost just the starting place,  

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that's not just about representation, it's not just about numbers and dashboards and thresholds, it's  really information that it can form subsequent strategies and information around how do you really  lean into understanding how the who of what you do is important to what you do?  

0:08:44.1 Kelly Brown: We know that this data could strengthen insight into program design, that  even when you think you're doing a good program, even when you think you're not intending to  exclude anyone, even when you think it's for everyone, really understanding the populations that  you're impacting and how they're changing over time can really provide information, key  information into how to design and refine and improve programs, even programs that you think are  doing well, it's also important that you understand the continuation of your human capital from your board, your senior staff, to your staff, to your stakeholders. 

0:09:24.5 Kelly Brown: Oftentimes, these different constituency groups are considered quite  separate from each other, but if you're really wanting to be effective, you really have to understand  the continuum and the relationship between these different stakeholders, and this is often why  foundations ask for or other entities ask for the demographics of your leadership, is because they  understand that this matters to the kind of talent that you can bring to bear to your efforts. 

0:09:56.6 Kelly Brown: So we know that you collect a lot of data, we know that you report a lot of  data, we know that some of it is useful and some of it is less useful, but we really want to emphasize that even when you're collecting a lot of data on different kinds of things, there are always  opportunities for you to think about how do you use data to understand who is missing, what voices  are out there, how are things changing and how is this kind of data that we're collecting really  informing and strength in our works and not just being used as an exercise to report, but really to  inform what we're doing. 

0:10:32.2 Kelly Brown: So before we move into conversation with Allie, as I mentioned, I wanted  to touch on what we're calling the legal landscape, a lot of folks often raise the issue around where  there are not engaging identity and demographics is illegal. 

0:10:48.9 Kelly Brown: And the service in lots of different areas, and while we can, we're not  equipped to provide you with legal advice, and even in... We were trying to get an attorney to be on  the call today. It wasn't working out, but even if we had... The context right now is so dynamic that  it's really difficult to define some definitive answers with respect to legal issues. 

0:11:13.3 Kelly Brown: But for the most part, the laws governing demographics and identity relate  to Title 7 of the 1964 Civil Rights Act that prohibits the discrimination based on race, color religion, sex, national origin, disability or age, and there are many provisions within the Civil Rights Act that relate largely to employment and contracting, and for people who get contracts from the federal  

government, there are clear prohibitions on discrimination with respect to these parameters, that law as many of you may know, was designed to redress centuries of discrimination along these lines and to really institutionalize an intranet to federal level prohibitions around this, as we have seen since  we've moved on it in what is it, almost 60 years since that law. A number of these provisions are  now encountering a number of some scrutiny, and so it really is an area that folks need to watch in  terms of how people are thinking about What does discrimination mean, how is it being defined,  how is it being counted and categorized and we know at the federal level, there's Title 7. 

0:12:25.8 Kelly Brown: But at the state level, many states are taking lots of different approaches,  10/31/24 Page 4 of 15

California Demographic Data Collaborative Webinar Series (Part 4) - The 'Now What_' 

in some cases enacting laws or bills and regulations that could expand the ability for government  entities and businesses and what have you to understand and better account for whether or not  there's discrimination with respect along these parameters, whereas in other places, there's actions  that are moving in order to constrain peoples and entities' abilities to track on discrimination and  exclusion, so it really is quite alive on arena that folks have to pay attention to. 

0:13:06.8 Kelly Brown: What we can say is right now, Title 7 requires that employers... And this  relates to how non-profits operate as employers and as contractors, it requires employers that have  over 100 more employees to file demographic surveys of their employees with the EEOC, in other  words, if you have at least 100 employees or more, you have to collect this data and file it with the  

EEOC to ensure or to track whether or not in fact there is equal opportunity with respect to  employment, as I mentioned, what is under scrutiny now is how discrimination is defined. 

0:13:45.1 Kelly Brown: And it is determined on one of the cases that many of you may be aware  of, that is on the Supreme Court docket right now, and as we're anticipating some decisions is  respect to how courts are thinking about affirmative action and the use of race in particular with  respect to admissions policies. Some of you may be very familiar with that law, and there is... Or  that case that is on the courts' docket right now, we are gonna put in the chat actually some brief that was commissioned by the Hewlett foundation that provides an assessment, I would say, a  conservative assessment of worst case scenario in terms of how that decision... What happens with  their decision may or may not impact non-profits and may or may not impact foundations and  funders, and we wanna share it in the sense of full transparency, because we think people have more information better, but we really do want to caution folks to understand that this is not settled law,  this is not an opinion, this is not for sure on the outline, a range of scenarios, and there are a number of folks who are also doing intensive legal work to understand How can and whatever way, the  Supreme Court rules, folks can still continue to use information and to use demographics to  advance equity and to an inclusion. 

0:15:20.3 Kelly Brown: So let me pause there before we transition into our conversation with  Allie, where we will actually go into much more specifics around how they are using this data, how  they are finding the organizations that they work and Michigan are engaging in using this data and  hopefully that's when you can really join in with your perspectives and questions, but I just wanna  pause and see if there are any questions or things that people wanna raise before we transition. 

0:16:00.4 Kelly Brown: Meghan not seeing anything. Not hearing anything. 

0:16:05.1 Meghan McVety: No, feel free to use the chat or the Q&A, and as Kelly and Allie are  talking, please feel free to use the chat with Q&A, we'll be monitoring that and bring those forward. 

0:16:15.8 Kelly Brown: Great. Yes, please do it. Is there something there?  0:16:20.1 Meghan McVety: Thank you for this resource for the human memo. 

0:16:24.1 Kelly Brown: Yeah, great, and just as a reminder, we're putting this this in the chat now,  but again, as I keep mentioning at the end of all five sessions, we will be providing everyone with  all of the decks, all of the webinars and supplemental written materials to support the content that  we're providing so the folks can have this at their fingertips as they move forward. 

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0:16:48.1 Kelly Brown: So as I mentioned, we're gonna be in conversation with Allie VanHeest  from the Kalamazoo Community Foundation, s he is the... How do you say that? Community  Investment Officer at the foundation. On her role, she facilitates and has been directing the  inaugural effort around collecting demographic data from the grantees, and the Kalamazoo  Community Foundation did a fair amount of work, and you'll hear more when she talks about  engaging the groups that they fund and the communities in which they fund, around this data and  the rationale for it, so I will let Allie give us a little bit of background and maybe just Allie saying,  what brought the foundation to a recognition that this was the kind of data that it really needed to  inform it... To better informants grant makers and supports partners. 

0:17:44.2 Allie VanHeest: Great, thank you so much, Kelly, greetings everyone from Michigan. It's exciting to be here with you all this afternoon, so what you're looking at here on the slide, our  mission at the Kalamazoo Community Foundation to mobilize people, resources and expertise to  advance racial, social and economic justice, was really the starting point of our journey towards  engaging with demographic data, over the course of late 2020 and early 2021. 

0:18:08.7 Allie VanHeest: We dreamed up this mission adopted this mission, and in tandem with  that process really overhauled our grant-making priorities and landed on racial equity as our central  grant-making priority across all sectors that we fund, here in Kalamazoo Community and what we  arrived at through that process was the clarity that if we're saying this is the work that we're doing,  that our priority is racial equity, that our mission is to mobilize our resources towards racial justice  and the pursuit of racial justice. 

0:18:40.0 Allie VanHeest: We need our own metrics, we need to be able to hold ourselves  accountable to are we doing this work, how well are we doing this work? And so we started to ask  questions like, Okay, so we're saying amongst ourselves in our grant-making space that we want to  be prioritizing our dollars towards by pack-led and serving organizations, but what tools do we have are we accountable to that. How are we accountable to that. And that's what led us to conversations  around demographic data collection. 

0:19:11.5 Allie VanHeest: And also in 2020, with the impacts of the pandemic, like many funders,  we leaned in harder than we had previously on trust-based philanthropy. And so really, we've spent  time wrestling with this question of how do we balance that we're trying to ease the burden on our  

funded partners while also arriving at this clarity that we really need to know who's leading the  work, who's informing the work, who's involved in the work, in order to be able to assess the  impact of our resources and community, but also to assess ourselves and hold ourselves accountable to our mission. And that's what brought us to Candid as our partner in collecting and analyzing  demographic data. We did some research about various options, considered our own demographic  data collections, reform and taxonomy, and through conversations with other local funders, we  really discerned that using an existing platform with a simple streamlined demographic data  collection taxonomy and existing resources for nonprofit organizations would be the simplest for us, but more importantly, the simplest for our funded partners. 

0:20:16.4 Allie VanHeest: And so we solidified a relationship at MOU with Candid in late 2021,  and we're preparing to start collecting demographic data collection from our funded partners in  2022. And then we took some time and hit pause and just realized, we really haven't asked our  funded partners, how will this impact you? We haven't really centered the expertise of our funded  partners in this process. So we slowed down a little bit and took the opportunity to engage a cohort  

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California Demographic Data Collaborative Webinar Series (Part 4) - The 'Now What_' 

of our funded partners. We put out a call and said, hey, here's an opportunity. This thing is coming.  Starting in 2023, we're gonna require demographic data through claiming your Candid profile.  Where we offered a small stipend and asked folks, would you volunteer to be part of a pilot and go  through this process and give us feedback? And frankly, I was a little nervous that we wouldn't get  interest. I was hoping for a cohort of 10 organizations. And we have about 120 funded partners on  an annual basis and more than 40 organizations expressed an interest in being part of it, which was  astounding to me and really underlines the fact that demographic data is emerging as a really critical part of the work in the nonprofit sector and that our funded partners are eager to get their hands on  this data about their work and to be able to use it to inform their own diversity, equity, and inclusion practices and processes and learning. 

0:21:46.0 Allie VanHeest: So we were really intentional on selecting among those many volunteers a cohort that really reflected the variety of the partners that we work with. We had large orgs, small  orgs, fiscally sponsored orgs. We had BIPOC-led, Black-led organizations. We had White-dominant organizations. The stipend, it was small. It was $250, which ideally we would have been able to  

provide more as a stipend, but we really wanted to just provide something as recognition of the  labor and the feedback and the insights that our partners were providing. So we worked through that process, provided some supports and check-ins throughout the process with our pilot partners and  then gathered feedback from them at the end. And if you would advance to the next slide. The  feedback from our partners about the process with Candid was overwhelmingly positive. Folks  were saying that the process was simple and straightforward and the sample surveys that Candid  provides were incredibly helpful and the step-by- step process was really useful as they planned out  their processes. And we also put together some additional resources. 

0:23:06.3 Allie VanHeest: So we had a 10-week kind of timeline of, do these tasks in week one and week two and week three, not as a requirement that folks follow that, but just as a sample for  breaking out the work and pacing. We also had sample communications that we shared for how to  message to your staff and board why you're collecting this information, how it will be shared with  us along those lines. And then we had the opportunity in gathering feedback from our pilot partners  to ask them, so how were those resources that we provided and that Candid provided, were they  enough? What else did you need? What did we not give you, that would have made this process  simpler? And then we've used all of that feedback and insight and suggestions that we received  from our partners to inform how we rolled out our demographic data collection requirement across  all of our funded partners starting this year in 2023. We are doing that softly, I'll say. We're not  discounting anyone from grant consideration this year. If they have not claimed their Candid profile, we recognize that this is one more thing on top of the grant request and all of the other 100s of  moving pieces that non-profit folks are juggling every week and so are just having follow-up  conversations with folks who weren't able to claim that to understand where their barriers, how can  we support and to communicate our expectations moving forward. 

0:24:30.2 Allie VanHeest: This here on the screen is just a snapshot from our grant making guide  which is about a 15 or 20 page resource that we update annually and provide to our funded partners  to try to be transparent about our processes, what we're looking for, how we evaluate requests,  things like that. And so we've added content, of course, about our demographic data requirements as well as on our website. We've built out a section with all kinds of downloadable resources and  things along those lines that partners can access to support this process. And then on the next slide, I included a screenshot of Kalamazoo Community Foundation's demographic data and Candid. I  think as a funder, it's incredibly important for me in conversations with the partners that I work  

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most closely with to always own and acknowledge that I work for an organization that has  historically been dominated by white folks and we have our own work and journey and process that  we continue to be on around representation and diversity and inclusion and ensuring that the voices  at our tables represent the voices of our community. So this is a snapshot from our Candid profile as well. 

0:25:35.7 Kelly Brown: So Allie, it sounds like you are in the sort of early stages, but I think you  do have some insights into, well, a couple of things. One is, what were the kinds of supports that  people thought were most helpful 'cause you provided a lot, it sounds like you provided a lot of  opportunities. What were most helpful? And then again, if you can also share, because this is a  conversation about, okay, so now we have it, what do we do with it? Talk about some of the ways  that people not only use their own demographic data, the data that they collected for themselves, but then also how the foundation is or plans to use what you collect from nonprofits. 

0:26:23.5 Allie VanHeest: Sure, absolutely. I think what I heard most clearly from partners was that the sample messaging for how to talk to your board and staff about demographic data collection was really the most helpful. And maybe second place would be samples, the demographic data surveys  in different formats. So we provided a fillable PDF and a Microsoft forms and a Google forms  version. And I think that was helpful just to meet the needs of different organizations and how they  do business. But the sample messaging I think in particular was helpful because this can be a  sensitive conversation to enter into, especially if you have not already been having this conversation with your board or with your staff. Some demographic data for folks is sensitive to answer these  questions that might be very personal. I might have some needs around reassurance to make sure  that my personal information will be managed in ways that I'm comfortable with and shared with  folks in ways that I'm comfortable with. So I think the sample messaging really removed a step in  the process or eased a step in the process for nonprofit partners, just in that it was a starting place. 

0:27:25.1 Allie VanHeest: How do I talk about this with folks? In terms of what we're hearing from organizations about how they're using the data, it really runs the gamut. We've heard about folks  using their own demographic data collection to outline a board recruitment plan. For example, we  have a youth literacy organization that we work really closely with. This is a Black-led  organization. At the board and staff level, they serve predominantly Black and Brown youth in the  community. And what they saw in their demographic data collection was that they didn't have  anyone at the board level that is living with a disability. And they know that many of the youth that  they work with have disabilities. And so that realization pushed them to think, okay, how can we  partner with our local disability network? How can we outreach to folks in the community who  have a disability and are passionate about youth literacy and take some time over the course of 12 to 18 months to really build out the training that we need to be an inclusive and welcoming  environment at the board level for folks with disabilities, and then find those folks to bring on board to really ensure that we have a full reflection of the youth that we work with guiding our  organization. We've also heard from organizations about once they've realized, oh, wow, we have a  significant gap around X, Y, or Z identity at the staff level, that they're evaluating their hiring  practices. 

0:28:50.6 Allie VanHeest: What interview questions are we asking? What are the requirements that we're putting on position descriptions? Where are we advertising our position openings? And what  do we need to shift to make sure that we are reaching candidates, whether it's candidates of color,  whether it's, female candidates, LGBTQ candidates, things like that. We've also heard from folks  

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who are outlining learning plans for their board and identifying trainings and things like that,  because they're clear that, wow, we have a majority white board. We've struggled to onboard and  retain board members of color. So before we try to do that, we need to really dig into what are the  barriers? What about our board culture is not inclusive to people of color? How are we gonna shift  that? And things along those lines. So those are just some brief examples of how we're hearing from our partners about how they're using the data. I could go on and on. So, stop me if you need to,  Kelly. In terms of how we're using the data internally, this year in 2023, we're really using the data  on our individual partners as a benchmark and a segue into a conversation. 

0:29:51.2 Allie VanHeest: So where we have partners, where we are seeing really significant gaps,  whether it's, an organization that serves a majority of people of color and their board is  overwhelmingly white, or their staff is overwhelmingly white, or perhaps, it's an organization that  has a really racially diverse board, but there are no LGBTQ people on the board, or no folks with  disabilities, things along those lines. We're having those conversations with them to say, okay, hey,  so here's the data. Here's what we're seeing. What are you going to do about it? What is the action  plan, right? What is the action plan? What steps will you take to ensure that you are moving towards building a board and a staff that really reflect the identities of the folks that you work with in the  community? And that is the entry point into accountability, right?  

0:30:39.1 Allie VanHeest: So that if next year we're looking at their grant request again, and we're  seeing that there's no progress made, that will likely shape and inform the decisions that we're  making in the grant making space. But for this year, our emphasis is clear feedback and really being direct with people about where we're seeing gaps and trying to offer concrete support and  encouragement, right, of, okay, so here's this gap. What are you gonna do about it? How can I come  alongside you and support you and address the gap. 

0:31:05.4 Kelly Brown: So Allie, we have a request. Would it be possible to share the messaging  materials with attendees here?  

0:31:14.6 Allie VanHeest: Yes, absolutely. 

0:31:16.2 Kelly Brown: Great. And what viewpoint is doing as a follow-up is to curate resources,  and those will be posted at the end of the series. So we'll be sure to include those there. There's  another question for you in the chat. What data do you use to benchmark your success inputs and  for you to know if you're making progress?  

0:31:39.1 Allie VanHeest: So I'm gonna answer this question two ways. First, I'll talk about how  we're measuring success or what success looks like or sort of what the benchmark is with our  individual partner organizations. Folks have been asking over and over again since we started  talking about demographic data in early 2022, what is good enough? Like what am I being  measured against? And what we continue to communicate to our partners is look at the  demographics of the folks that you're working with. If you're a neighborhood-based organization,  look at the neighborhood. If you're an organization that works in schools, look at the demographics  of those schools. Look at who you work with in terms of their identities. If you're working with  queer youth and you don't have queer folks guiding that work, that's a concern. And so really for  each organization to set their own benchmarks and their own definition of what does representative  leadership look like for us based on the demographics of the folks that they work with directly. 

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0:32:38.9 Allie VanHeest: In terms of us at the foundation, this is our benchmarking year, so we  haven't set specific metrics because we don't know where we've been. But what we'll be evaluating  at the end of this year is what percentage of our grant dollars went to BIPOC-led organizations and  then also what was the average grant awards size to BIPOC-led organizations versus to White-led  organizations. And once we see that data at the end of this year, we'll then set specific targets for  2024 and beyond to ensure that we are holding ourselves accountable to moving towards our  mission and our vision as quickly as we can. 

0:33:19.0 Kelly Brown: Yeah. So that's helpful. And again, we really wanna encourage other folks  to jump in with their questions and comments and reactions as well. But I think, again, I've been  doing this a long time. And again, because I think we think about data as something sort of very  static and tactical and numerical and what have you. But I always try and remind people that this is  information, right? This is data. This is information. And I think it's very easy sometimes to get sort  of caught in these, what I sort of say, thresholds and dashboards, right? Sort of like what we're  seeing right here on the screen is easy to get focused on those things and think that there is a  threshold that's enough. But I think it's important to remember that part of the reason why it's  critical to have different kinds of perspectives and representative perspectives is because they  actually help you do better work, right? They actually change the way you do your work. 

0:34:29.5 Kelly Brown: It's not just okay, we got to a magic number of four Black people and  everything is wonderful. It's just like there is part of the muscle that goes into stretching in that way, whether it's across race or ability or what have you, language, is that it makes the folks who are  there kind of do better work. I sometimes tell the story around hearing an account of a food bank  that was very vested in providing sound services to the stakeholders who were accessing the food  bank. And they realized that the food bank was in a food desert and they wanted to provide fresh  food for folks who were accessing the traditional foods that were in a food bank. So they organized  to get fresh food brought in and make it available to folks at the food bank. And after some period  of time of providing this, they realized that people were not actually accessing the food, the fresh  food, right? And they couldn't understand, well, why don't they, everyone's clear, you're in a food  bag, food desert. This isn't easy to access. You know what, maybe they don't know how to cook it.  What's, what's the issue? Why don't we... Why aren't they availing themselves of this, of this  intervention?  

0:35:41.7 Kelly Brown: And so they finally decided to ask folks what happened and the response... The participants say, well, you know, we can only access the food bank twice a month. Fresh food is perishable. We need food that's gonna last us from the first time we access the food bank to the  second time. So that's why we're gonna get non-perishable things and canned goods and what have  you. It's not as if we don't understand what to do with fresh food. And I think, when I share that  anecdote, the point is to understand why it's important to have these perspectives as part of your  strategy, because even with well-intentioned designs and goals and objectives, and even with well informed, because there was nothing about the provision of fresh that was wrong, but there was  something about that range of perspectives that actually makes even good work better. And I'm  wondering if you have any anecdotes or people telling you around, not just that we increased our  recruiting to reach more people, but if people shared stories with you around how we actually are  doing better work as a result of attention to these things. 

0:36:48.3 Allie VanHeest: Sure. Sure. The first example that comes to mind is there's a local  partner in our community that they provide free home repair, critical home repair services to low 

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income families and in some core neighborhoods around our downtown area that are historically  disinvested red lines neighborhoods. And this organization has historically been led by primarily  white men with backgrounds in the construction trades. And overwhelmingly the folks who are  accessing home repair services through this organization are women of color, often, single head of  households with young children. And this organization started on a journey of really deepening their relationships with similar organizations or organizations in the same neighborhoods that were led by women of color. And so that doesn't directly translate to their board demographics yet, right? Like  long-term that they're hoping to deepen those relationships in a really authentic way. And that that  will contribute to a turning of the tide in their board and staff demographics. But to your point,  Kelly, it's about the relationship. 

0:37:58.8 Allie VanHeest: It's about who are we listening to? Who are we asking questions of  whose voice is here? Who's considered expert in this space? And so when they began this process of really just listening, what they learned was that many, many, many pregnant women were applying  for support from this program in the hopes that this critical issue in their home, the safety issue in  their home, whether it's a leaking roof or a hot water heater issue or something absolutely critical  would be repaired before their child was born and brought home to that space. And this organization had a sort of universal waiting, first come first serve, a little bit of priority ranking based on the  severity of the issue. And what they realized through this listening process with organizations  around them who were working alongside the same families and who were led by women of color  was, okay, we need to rethink our waiting list and we need to move pregnant women to the top  because it is so pressing that they have this home repair done before they try to bring that baby  home into that space. 

0:39:12.3 Allie VanHeest: And so they've been piloting that new initiative for about six months  now. And the outcomes, what they're seeing, I can't quote their specific outcomes data, but they're  seeing just these like really profound shifts where these families that then enable them to bring their babies home without as much worry or concern about the safety of their child. And so that's an  example, not quite in the board and staff demographic space, but of what happens when an  organization that doesn't have folks all around the table who have lived experience and share  identities with the folks on the receiving end of the resource or the service, stop and listen, stop and  ask a question because you're strengthening the work that you're doing. And as we were talking  about the other day, Kelly, there is a business case for demographic data. There is a business case  for having folks sitting around your tables who share identities with or share lived experiences with  the folks that you're working. 

0:39:55.5 Kelly Brown: Super helpful. Again, we'd love to hear folks thoughts, but I guess one  question that I have, and, you sort of alluded to some of our prep conversation and to some degree it relates, to what are the as I mentioned, kind of the legal environment that we are in where there kind of the whole idea of redressing past wrongs or even promoting inclusion and equity is being  scrutinized, is sort of what do you do or what are you hearing from, or are you hearing from  organizations or efforts who say, this isn't important to me. I don't think this is value everybody  should be the same, treated the same. I don't think we should... This is necessarily a when you say  moving toward progress, I feel like we're doing good work and without attention to these kinds of  things how do you respond to that? Because I'm sure there are gonna be folks around the table who  are gonna get that. 

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unfortunately, we haven't really heard those comments that directly and yet we hear the rumblings  of resistance. And at the end of the day, I can't force anyone to share, my opinion or the values of  my foundation in terms of what we're prioritizing around demographic data and representative  leadership. And yet these are our expectations for our funded partners. There are other funding  sources available if folks don't wanna engage, don't wanna participate, don't believe that diversity  and representation matters. That's for them to decide, that's for their organization to decide. How  we're really seeing resistance is a lot of... There's some fear mongering happening among some of  the larger, longer term white led organizations in our community who I think feel the heat of that  light shining on them in this moment of it is suddenly becoming transparent public that they have  not made any progress in terms of diversifying their organization. 

0:41:58.7 Allie VanHeest: And what that looks like is we'll hear rumors. So I've had several,  funded partners reach out to me and say, I've heard from multiple sources that the community  foundation will now only give grants to, organizations that serve 100% people of color. Is that  

accurate? No. That's not accurate at all. I don't think there's a single organization we work with who is serving 100% of color, but it's that fear, it's that anxiety that's churned up by the requirement  around transparency. And so we hear some of those kinds of rumors, and so we just try to really,  dispel them and talk, frankly, about what we're looking for, what we're looking for transparency  around who is guiding your work, and we're looking for you to be able to articulate really clear  strategies for how you're moving towards greater representation. 

0:42:54.1 Kelly Brown: I also think there is sometimes... Oh, let's see. I hear sometimes there is.  Some concern around, whether or not, even though in some cases, if you really look at the data that  we have, there is sort of a disparate and unequal distribution of resources in general, certainly,  philanthropic resources in the social sector. But that, this move is disadvantaging organizations,  who may or may be getting, specialized support, to engage in this way. But you all have addressed  that to some degree in terms of, using this conversation around data to open up some questions  around how do people think about their constituencies and their identities and sort of open up new  networks and build new networks. Can you talk a little bit about how are you conceptualizing sort  of the priority of deploying more resources to organizations led by communities of color, people of  color, or people from underrepresented groups while realizing that even organizations who aren't  there need support and resources too. 

0:44:07.5 Allie VanHeest: Sure. Absolutely, when we have a limited amount of some resource  available, whether it's an opportunity to engage in a training that's been facilitated through the  community foundation or something along those lines, we really try to leverage those resources  first. And primarily towards BIPOC led people of color led organizations. And sometimes that looks like, so for example, one of my colleagues facilitates, wellness grants that go specifically to BIPOC  leaders, and they can go to 'em individually or through their organization. And in the second year  iteration of that grant process, she's specifically prioritizing BIPOC leaders who are working inside  of organizations with a less than $1 million operating budget annually. And just really seeing that  it's folks in these more grassroots, smaller, younger organizations that don't have access to things  like benefits $2000 wellness grant can really go a long way towards facilitating access to what folks need around health and wellbeing. 

0:45:05.5 Allie VanHeest: And so those are just some examples of ways that when we have a  resource to share with, with our funded partners, we really are trying to be strategic and ask the  question of who has the greatest barriers to be able to access this resource through some other  

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channels. And what we're clear about is in our community, and in communities across the United  States, it is primarily BIPOC led organizations that have barriers to access some of the resources  that exist out there, whether it's training, learning, financial resources, grants all of those things. So,  and right, we hold the recognition that even as I'm saying, yes, we're prioritizing resources and  opportunities to BIPOC-led organizations that just myself. 

0:45:46.2 Allie VanHeest: With my portfolio of partners, I am very often sitting down and having  very in depth conversations with white dominant organizations about sharing resources for how  they can build out a board recruitment strategy. I've gone to board meetings to talk to boards about  why this matters to the community foundation and what our expectations are. And so even as I'm  saying we're prioritizing certain resources and opportunities towards BIPOC-led organization,  organizations that's also holding the recognition that the entire system of philanthropy is built  around the needs of white dominant organizations. And we continue to be in deep relationship and  offering lots of support, to white led organizations. It's a both ends. 

0:46:35.0 Kelly Brown: So, as we, I wanna ask you sort of one... Sort of last sort of summing up  question and also, and invite any other questions from the collaborative members or others be...  Because some, one thing I'm gonna ask you is some advice to them, but I do want to remind and  just make a special note to folks that we have dropped in the chat, a link to the survey that we've  been putting at the end of each webinar to get feedback from you, not only on how the webinar  went in the process, but this one is in particular really important. We wanna give you some time to  think about it, is because we wanna ask for your feedback and your input and your questions.  Because the next session that we'll have on June 20th will be a round table of the collaborative role. 

0:47:17.8 Kelly Brown: They'll share a little bit about their own learnings about this process as we  move forward, share what they... How they plan to use it or are already using it to some degree. And then be open to your questions directly for your funders, around your issues and your challenges  and your concerns around the state and how you want it to be used, as well as what might be  additional supports or resources that you might need beyond this original or this preliminary, series.  So just wanna drop folks attention to that link in that survey and really encourage you to fill it out.  So are there any questions from the collab or anyone else, or anyone out there before I pose one last question to Allie. 

0:48:10.0 Kelly Brown: If not, Allie, I'll ask you to just again, share this is your fairly early in your process. So I'm gonna ask for you to share sort of what is one piece of advice you would give to  nonprofits who are confronting, funders, stakeholders would have you around this data? Whether  it's getting it, using it, prioritizing it, thinking about it, talking about it, just based on your  experience, what is one thing you would say in an overarching way to folks who are on the  receiving end of these requests? And then to supplement since we have our collaborative partners  on the call as well, is from the perspective of a peer foundation, what's one piece of advice you  would also give to the collaborative partners around just good practice, good or learning from what  you're learning in terms of how to engage folks around it, how to use it. Just one piece of advice for  both of those audiences. 

0:49:19.6 Allie VanHeest: Sure I have the same piece of advice for both audiences, and it looks a  little different on both sides my piece of advice would be, take your time, collecting demographic  data. It sounds like something that you could do quickly and make a survey, send it out, get the data, report it, and yet slow down, take time for nonprofits, take the time to really talk with your staff,  

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talk with your board about why this matters, how you'll use it, what's emerging in the sector, have  those conversations. Take the time to build, buy-in within your organization. Because there might  be some resistance, there might be some fear, there might be some anxiety, and with some diligent  conversation and continued, clarity you can arrive at a place of greater unity around that. 

0:50:08.6 Allie VanHeest: So for nonprofits, take your time, talk with your people, build shared  understanding for why this matters and how you'll use it. And then similarly, for funders, take your  time. There's urgency here, and this matters, and we need to be moving forward quickly. And yet  take the time to listen to your partners, take the time to practice something, to test something, to  gather feedback. I'm so glad we did a pilot because we learned so many things of what we ha what  wasn't working, what we needed to create, what we needed to provide. And I'm just really grateful  that we had the time and the opportunity to do that before rolling this out to 120 partners and then  running into the same bumps over and over again. So, have the pace, have the intensity, have the  urgency, and also take the time to get it right. Take the time to build, shared, understanding and  collective buy-in for the process. 

0:51:00.5 Kelly Brown: Thanks and I would only add is as you often don't get it right. You just get  better and that, and that's the most important thing. And also to remember that this isn't where we've tried to also lead this is data to make us better. And it does, it can be hard and challenging, but the  point is to be better and better is measured in lots of different ways, but this is really to remember  the aspirational, aspect of this, that more information will make us all better. So I just want to end  on some key points around data is the only starting point. It's legal, but the landscape is changing so we are gonna support you in trying to stay, abreast and aware of this, but it's all about learning,  adapting, and making progress. 

0:51:44.1 Kelly Brown: So as we conclude, I wanna thank Allie, for her contribution and her  thoughts and her insights and sharing her experience and all of our partners around the table. Again, a reminder that the next session, the last session is June 20th. Again, it's gonna be obviously  optional. It's gonna be an opportunity for you to talk with the collaborative partners around all of  this effort, the work, giving you a chance to digest what you've heard over the past, few weeks.  Bring your questions, bring your ideas, bring your thoughts, bring your reflections. Please fill out  the survey so that we can capture all of that and prepare as much as possible for that session to  allow you to get the most out of this effort and these conversations. And hopefully to establish what  might come next from the collaborative partners. And also too, this is information that is going to  fuel the field as I mentioned earlier on. We're gonna take this to the field, what we're learning here,  what we're hearing from you. So we really want to avail you of the opportunity to tell us what you  think and so on that note, unless there's anything from the collaborative partners, we'll close down  this session and we'll see you in a couple of weeks. Thanks everyone. 

0:53:22.8 Meghan McVety: Yeah, thanks Allie. You're awesome. 

0:53:27.7 Allie VanHeest: Thank for having me.